Daniel Perry - Dreamer, Do-er, and The Indomitable Will

Known for his incredible double Everesting success (50+ continuous hours on the bike and over 60,000 ft of climbing) and for a 2nd place finish in XWA, a 700 mile non-stop mountain bike race across the state of Washington, Daniel Perry defines "epic" and "unbelievable" for most people; doing things an "ordinary" person couldn't do. However, Daniel challenges us all to rethink what is ordinary and shows us how ceilings and limits are only in your head.

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[the full audio recording of the interview is available here: https://soundcloud.com/lois-keller-74335094/daniel-perry]

Lois [1:12]: What was your training plan for XWA? What worked and what didn’t?

Daniel:. For every event, I come up with a new plan based off of what I think my genetics can handle and what I see others doing. For XWA, high intensity rides were gone; they had nothing to do with this event. I did one road race which I crashed out of [Lo and Daniel both laugh nervously]. I’ve been doing mostly riding for fun – lots of gravel. Troy, who built the route, talks about that - ride like the event you’re doing and all your bike training should reflect that.

I planned to go without sleep [Daniel went 2/5 days without sleep] but you can’t really train for that. I’ve done it before, so I knew it would probably work again.

Lois : Do you feel like you were targeting miles or efforts or any sort of intensity goals?

Daniel: I targeted Fatigue based on Fitness/Freshness on HR with Strava. My goal was to keep the fatigue score growing – multiple days, two hard rides on the weekend.

Lois: So sustained fatigue. Do you feel like those efforts replicated for the event well or is there anything you would tweak?

Daniel: I’m actually really happy with what I did. Part of that was doing Dirty Kanza training with you last year and Brian Tooney, a guy I follow on Strava who does RAAM, talks about “too many miles” on his legs. We overdid it for Kanza last year and I backed it off this year, doing a lot of endurance but never destroying myself. I never got to a point where I didn’t want to get on a bike.

Lois: What is “too many miles” for you?

Daniel: Uh, I mean I used to do miles, uh but… sleep. Sleep. Thanks to you, sleep became more valuable for me than miles. I was working 40 hours a week and just Saturday and Sunday wasn’t enough so I would go out on weekdays with 2-3 rest days (where I drove to work) and I would go without sleep to do a century on like a Wednesday. I would sleep 3-4 hours and then go to work the next day.

I was improving, the miles were good, but it was taking a toll on my body. My riding wasn’t as good as it should have been because I was skipping out on sleep.

Lois [6:30]: What are some tips from you for faster recovery from some of these long rides? Your typical training ride is 150 miles… how do you recover from that?

Daniel: I have to ride the next day. There’s no intensity and there’s no mileage rule. Sometimes my commute to work is enough (12-14 miles round trip), sometimes I need a little more. But I have to be on the bike. My legs will feel terrible if I don’t ride the next day.

A good protein shake after the ride is critical too! Preferably within the first 15 minutes after you get off the bike to give your body the best chance it can to recover as quickly as possible – it needs protein ASAP.

Lois [8:28]: You want to tell them our secret recipe for a protein shake?

Daniel: You add coffee creamer, like an ounce or two, protein powder, and milk. Lots of creamer.

Lois: I discovered this one day when we ran out of milk…

Daniel: Yeah, now we buy coffee creamer in gallon size.

Lois: So you’re going to have your protein shake, you’re going to sleep well, and you’re going to do a 10-30 mile ride. Anything else?

Daniel: Yes, you need to take care of any injuries you have. If your knee, wrist, etc. hurts, you need to make sure you’re doing something, like foam rolling or cross training to make sure you’re taking care of it. If you’ve been to a PT, be willing to do the exercises.

For XWA, I knew I needed to do something about my knee, so I did my knee exercises but I did my PT exercises the week before. At first I thought it was a mistake because my legs hurt from the exercises before the start, but it was actually perfect. I had manageable knee pain throughout the ride, which was great (instead of crippling pain).

Lois [14:20]: Have you ever failed at something you set a goal for?

Daniel: Yeah, so Dirty Kanza last year. It’s funny to look back because it didn’t make sense – I don’t win local gravel races, but I had this idea that a longer race like Dirty Kanza would favor me. I thought I was going to be competitive on the open men’s scale, and it’s a world class event that attracts professionals.

I regret that I lied to myself about what my capabilities are for that event, and it almost took me down. I stuck with the front group for 27 miles, and it almost buried me. There was a very good chance I wasn’t going to finish that event because I had paced it so badly because I wasn’t honest with myself. It was a huge goal of mine too, I had trained for months, and I almost blew it.

Lois: Do you feel like you applied those lessons to XWA?

Daniel: Definitely. I went into it with a healthier mindsetf – First off, I’m new to this, and I wasn’t going to take risks that might make me faster. I knew of Josh Kato and Chase Medina were going to be there, and I was reading “how to bikepack” links written by Tour Divide winner, Josh Kato, who I’d be competing against (he ended up starting a day early).

I went in understanding I was going to do my own effort, and I was going to be racing it but I was OK being beaten. Truly, a top 10 would have been incredible. I was going to see new parts of the state and do things on a bike I hadn’t done before. It was also going to be the first state I rode across.

Lois [19:53]: OK, flip side of that coin – what is your best achievement?

Daniel: The Cross Washington. The double Everesting was huge, and the people who were apart of that … it was mind-blowing.

Lois [20:38]: What is going through your head in such a race? You have 5 days by yourself, you’re in a race, you’re competing, you’re not sleeping, you’re hungry… what’s going through your head?

Daniel: There’s a lot and then there’s a lot of nothing. Riding a bike off road takes a lot of your focus, so everything else is a surface thought. I made a lot of mistakes because I couldn’t think deeply. I thought about the competition – I checked the tracking page hourly. I didn’t know the other people or their plans or their capabilities or what they could endure.

You spend a lot time thinking about the risk you're taking. Do I have enough water, food, energy? How far away is the next town? What is the surface going to be like? You have endless hours… I spent 58 hours in Zone 2 in that ride… two entire days of your life in Zone 2.

Lois: You didn’t think about your childhood or the pain?

Daniel: There was so much… I can’t really cover it. I thought about my childhood and stupid cows and their stampedes [Daniel grew up on a dairy farm]. I thought about my grandmother, who has passed, but my grandmother always wanted updates on what I was doing. So on long rides like this, I think “grandma would love to know about this.

Lois [27:00]: You’re an ordinary person, no one would look at you and think you were truly exceptional (no offense Daniel!) – what is your super power that allows you to do these things that 99.99% of people would never be capable of?

Daniel: Well that’s the trick to the question – I think they could. I think most people are capable of doing an Everesting (the height of Mount Everest in a single continuous ride) but so few people ever even start one. I think everybody should push their boundaries. If I had a superpower, it’s a willingness to positively push through things. I try to be honest about my limits, but when I decide I am going to do something I am stubborn…

Lois: relentless, that’s how I’d describe you

Daniel: Yeah, once I have decided to do something, I will do it. I have setbacks but failing at something I have decided to do… that doesn’t happen often. My Everesting attempts have been way slower than the records, but my Everestings get done.

Lois: It’s interesting to compare to your Dirty Kanza experience though where you had that positive attitude and you had that goal in mind and it didn’t happen. Maybe you’re better able to cope and pivot when failure starts to hit you?

Daniel: That’s true – I did fail, I wasn’t going to be remotely competitive with that front group. I had to let them go, I had nothing left. I decided that I came to finish Dirty Kanza though and that became my new goal.

Lois: Yeah, and you mentioned genetics as being a limiting factor earlier too – that you don’t think you have superior genetics. So if your superpower is relentless optimism, how does that balance with being ordinary? Do you try to do events where genetics matter less?

Daniel: Short answer, yes. After last year, I am more willing to be honest with what my capability is. I am never going to be a world tour rider, but I am willing to try new things. Like I did a mountain bike race for the first time this year

Lois: and won it

Daniel: I was lucky

Lois: And he calls it luck… he’s very talented. So your super power is trying and not giving up.

Daniel: There were times in XWA maybe I should have given up, anybody that knew the story would have been sympathetic to giving up, but it was never in the cards for me. I had the thought, I need to make some choices to ameliorate the situation, but I never thought to make the phone call that I was done. I was willing to crawl to the next town.

Lois [33:54]: Who do you admire most in the cycling community and why?

Daniel: This is a huge list.

Lois: I know, right, we know some great people. OK, you can pick 2.

Daniel: You’re not going to like the answer, but you’ve been a huge inspiration.

Lois: Oh you’re going to flatter your interviewer…

Daniel: The way you’ve been able to push through things, the way you set goals, and the way you set goals for me. Cross Washington went on the map because you set that goal for me. Dirty Kanza went on the map because you suggested it. You’re willing to sign up for just about anything –

Lois: yeah but I probably don’t put enough thought into it

Daniel: That is a superpower too, because once you sign up for something then it’s on the map and you have to start making it possible. You’re willing to be honest with yourself, and you don’t show up to things that you signed up for because you can’t, and that’s a really healthy choice that I am not willing to make quite often. Yes, this is genuine, I admire you a lot and I think a lot of women cyclists have gained from your experiences and willingness to share, and you have more influence than you realize.

Lois: Well thank you… who is the other?

Daniel: Other cyclists…. Brian Tooney. I found him on Strava through a climbing challenge and he was third, and it was a thing for him for a while because he was trying to beat the cheaters in the climbing challenge. I got to see Alabama through him and his photos. He was one of my first inspirations and I still learn from him, and I hope to ride a bike like him one day. He has a family and spends time with his kids… he’s a huge motivator.

I could also name all of my friends.

Aharon, Fabien, Thomas, Tom Sumter… these guys, Tom Sumter pushed me into gravel. Michael Boyer his openness was the most critical because at the time I met him, I was learning how to bike through Youtube. I finally showed up to my first group ride with Cascades, and I was terrified to show up to this 20 something mile ride, and Michael made me feel relaxed and invited me to the next ride. From meeting Michael, my friend group has exploded. I have made more friends through cycling than I have the rest of my life.

Lois: I find this so funny how much of an influence Michael was to both of us, even for me a year later with different circumstances… Michael is this introvert, he has a family, very dedicated Cascade Ride Leader, but we were both so strongly influenced by him because when we needed a hand, he offered.

Daniel: Yeah, I often use Michael as a benchmark for how I should treat other cyclists and encouraging others and ask myself if I am doing what Michael would do.

Lois [40:56]: What’s next?

Daniel: no idea

Lois: Need me to set a goal for you?

Daniel: No! I am going to hike for a bit with my family for the next few weeks. I am in awesome shape and looking forward to beating up my brother on the hikes.

I am thinking of RAAM, Trans Am, Tour Divide… XWA was a gateway for me. XWA was to learn and to see how I did with multiple days in a row. Turns out I absolutely love it and it plays to any strength I might have. A 60 mile road race isn’t my thing, and a lot of these endurance cyclists are crazy, but it’s way less results focused and I like that – everyone has a story.

Now I have to figure out the order… because Tour Divide is a bear.

Lois: I think you can do it. You have great fitness, you are a good enough mechanic

Daniel: There are grizzly bears on that route. You have to be OK being alone.

Lois: Bears only run at 30 mph.

Daniel: They can do that up hill

Lois: Then you turn around and go down the hill!

Daniel: They probably get you while you're peeing in the woods.

Lois: Then pee on the bike!

Daniel: [laughter] So pro.

Lois [46:05]: Any advice for people getting started?

Daniel: You gotta have fun. You can get obsessed with weight and gear and training… but if you can’t get on your bike and have fun, you’re doing the wrong thing. Make it fun, figure out the things you enjoy – is it the competition, is it the average speed? Figure out what your fun is and figure it into the formula. You can accomplish an Everesting without pure suffering; all of my Everestings have been a blast. Be willing to push yourself – put no one on a pedestal.

Lois: the bear will eat them too

Daniel: You can do things you never thought you could do if you keep it fun. I’m just a guy who likes riding bikes.

Thank you Daniel for your wisdom and for continuing to be a selfless inspiration to us all.